"What makes a bike good or valuable?"
That's a tough question I got from one shopper recently. What DOES make one of our bikes worth $700 and another $1700?
Groupset models
The easiest first cut are the components (shifters, derailleurs, brakes, cranks, etc. The complete bundle is called a Groupset). Each major manufacturer (Campagnolo, Shimano and to a lesser degree SRAM) have about 5 or 6 different grades of component groupsets. From top to bottom of Shimano it runs: Dura Ace, Ultegra, 105, Tiagra and Sora (and even a 6th, 2300). At Campagnolo it runs: the legendary Super Record + Record, Chorus, Athena, Centaur, Veloce, Xenon. (though the last two have been discontinued.)
If you didn't know better, you might think they are basically the same. They all do basically the same thing afterall - shift gears and stop the bike. So, what's the difference? Basically, weight, durability, precision, materials and craftsmanship. The pros basically only use Dura Ace and Record. They are the lightest weight, made of alloys instead of plastics, are more durable, more precisely designed and engineered, are more beautifully finished and fitted. That attention to detail extends to the 2nd category gruppos - Ultegra and Chorus (which while slightly heavier many consider MORE durable than Cat1 groups.) Dura Ace versus Tiagra or Sora is like comparing Champagne to fizzy white wine, like sirloin steak to hamburger.
Most serious riders would not go below 105 or Centaur (the mid range gear). Both are perfectly servicable and respectable, though maybe a little heavier and slightly clunkier.
Then of course there is the number of "speeds". When handle-bar "Click" shifting was introduced, the first systems were for only 7 or 8 speeds (though over 2 front rings that made for 14 and 16 speeds). Today they are at 11-speed systems.
If you were riding 200+ km a day in the Tour de France, yea, 11x2=22 choices might make a difference (allowing Lance to choose the exactly ideal pedal cadence or pedaling speed to manage his effort and energy perfectly.) For most of us day or recreational riders even 9 speeds is perfectly adequate. 8-speed systems might seem a little antiquated, but I frankly would rather ride 8-speed Dura Ace than 11 speed 105 or 10-speed Tiagra. You can immediately feel the high precision of the shifts (click-click-click,no hesitation) and elegance of the design.
The upper end gear will last 2-3x longer (and retain its resale value) than the low end stuff (20-year old Dura Ace is still sought after by collectors) and will stay in tune longer (so will require less maintenance) and will have a far, far lower failure rate (metal bits versus plastic.)
Summary, aim for 105 or Veloce in above 9-speed (unless you can find 8-speed in Dura Ace or even 600 which was the old name for Ultegra). Campagnolo is generally more sought after than Shimano.
Frame stickers
Someone noted recently that in all my photo collections, I seem to be obsessively zooming in on the various stickers and markings on the frames. That's because to bike weeies, these ways of identifying the quality of the frame, like hallmarks on silver and first-edition dates on collectible books.
Frame materials
(To be completed.)
Dropouts, Bottom Bracket Shells and Lugs
This is getting a little arcane for the novice rider but you asked. If there are no stickers or brand names or other obvious signs of qualityon the frame itself, the next place to look for clues is on the dropouts, bottom bracket (BB) shell and lugs. These are the bits used to join up the tubes together. They are selected by the frame maker (or the shop) and they can choose either cheap stamped metal bits or very expensive cast lugs.
Dropouts are the small steel bits, front and back, that the wheels clip into. The BB shell is the round tube where the axle passes through at the lower middle of frame. The lugs are the joints where the tubes meet up.
So how do these bits indicate quality? The same way that you wouldn't put expensive mag wheels on a Toyota Corolla or use an expensive red wine to make Sangria, a frame builder woudn't likely invest in using very expensive lugs and dropouts on a cheap frame.
OK so how do you know they are quality. Since Dropouts are usually purchased from specialty suppliers, the best are marked with the maker's name: Campagnolo, Columbus, Gipiemme, Huret, Shimano, etc.
Lugs. First, a pantographed (a logo carved into the metal) is usually a sign of quality (since it is an extra expense to do) Second, long tapered lugs and whimsically curly-cued ones are most difficult to make and install, and so indicate quality.
As for the bottombrack shell -- turn it over. If it says Cinelli, it is quality. Period. If it has a brand name (like "Colnago" etc. ditto. and this is also a sign that the frame is actually the brand the stickers say it is. Counterfeits are common.
Groupset models
The easiest first cut are the components (shifters, derailleurs, brakes, cranks, etc. The complete bundle is called a Groupset). Each major manufacturer (Campagnolo, Shimano and to a lesser degree SRAM) have about 5 or 6 different grades of component groupsets. From top to bottom of Shimano it runs: Dura Ace, Ultegra, 105, Tiagra and Sora (and even a 6th, 2300). At Campagnolo it runs: the legendary Super Record + Record, Chorus, Athena, Centaur, Veloce, Xenon. (though the last two have been discontinued.)
If you didn't know better, you might think they are basically the same. They all do basically the same thing afterall - shift gears and stop the bike. So, what's the difference? Basically, weight, durability, precision, materials and craftsmanship. The pros basically only use Dura Ace and Record. They are the lightest weight, made of alloys instead of plastics, are more durable, more precisely designed and engineered, are more beautifully finished and fitted. That attention to detail extends to the 2nd category gruppos - Ultegra and Chorus (which while slightly heavier many consider MORE durable than Cat1 groups.) Dura Ace versus Tiagra or Sora is like comparing Champagne to fizzy white wine, like sirloin steak to hamburger.
Most serious riders would not go below 105 or Centaur (the mid range gear). Both are perfectly servicable and respectable, though maybe a little heavier and slightly clunkier.
Then of course there is the number of "speeds". When handle-bar "Click" shifting was introduced, the first systems were for only 7 or 8 speeds (though over 2 front rings that made for 14 and 16 speeds). Today they are at 11-speed systems.
If you were riding 200+ km a day in the Tour de France, yea, 11x2=22 choices might make a difference (allowing Lance to choose the exactly ideal pedal cadence or pedaling speed to manage his effort and energy perfectly.) For most of us day or recreational riders even 9 speeds is perfectly adequate. 8-speed systems might seem a little antiquated, but I frankly would rather ride 8-speed Dura Ace than 11 speed 105 or 10-speed Tiagra. You can immediately feel the high precision of the shifts (click-click-click,no hesitation) and elegance of the design.
The upper end gear will last 2-3x longer (and retain its resale value) than the low end stuff (20-year old Dura Ace is still sought after by collectors) and will stay in tune longer (so will require less maintenance) and will have a far, far lower failure rate (metal bits versus plastic.)
Summary, aim for 105 or Veloce in above 9-speed (unless you can find 8-speed in Dura Ace or even 600 which was the old name for Ultegra). Campagnolo is generally more sought after than Shimano.
Frame stickers
Someone noted recently that in all my photo collections, I seem to be obsessively zooming in on the various stickers and markings on the frames. That's because to bike weeies, these ways of identifying the quality of the frame, like hallmarks on silver and first-edition dates on collectible books.
Frame materials
(To be completed.)
Dropouts, Bottom Bracket Shells and Lugs
This is getting a little arcane for the novice rider but you asked. If there are no stickers or brand names or other obvious signs of qualityon the frame itself, the next place to look for clues is on the dropouts, bottom bracket (BB) shell and lugs. These are the bits used to join up the tubes together. They are selected by the frame maker (or the shop) and they can choose either cheap stamped metal bits or very expensive cast lugs.
Dropouts are the small steel bits, front and back, that the wheels clip into. The BB shell is the round tube where the axle passes through at the lower middle of frame. The lugs are the joints where the tubes meet up.
So how do these bits indicate quality? The same way that you wouldn't put expensive mag wheels on a Toyota Corolla or use an expensive red wine to make Sangria, a frame builder woudn't likely invest in using very expensive lugs and dropouts on a cheap frame.
OK so how do you know they are quality. Since Dropouts are usually purchased from specialty suppliers, the best are marked with the maker's name: Campagnolo, Columbus, Gipiemme, Huret, Shimano, etc.
Lugs. First, a pantographed (a logo carved into the metal) is usually a sign of quality (since it is an extra expense to do) Second, long tapered lugs and whimsically curly-cued ones are most difficult to make and install, and so indicate quality.
As for the bottombrack shell -- turn it over. If it says Cinelli, it is quality. Period. If it has a brand name (like "Colnago" etc. ditto. and this is also a sign that the frame is actually the brand the stickers say it is. Counterfeits are common.
I've seen new bikes as cheap or cheaper at the Local Bike Shop.
I too have been surprised at the extraordinarily good value some of the LBSs are offering these days. When I mentioned to someone the other day that TOCycles used bikes would run between $1000 and $1750, she replied (very poliitely) "Well, I can get something brand new at the bike shop for about that so I am going to shop there".And that got me wondering if our prices were not out of line.
So what is the difference between what you get for... $1000 at an LBS and at TOCycles.
Tthe first difference is in the components. Each of the major component makers (Campagnolo, Shimano and SRAM) offer a range of as many as 6 models of components, all at very different price points. The top of the line Shimano is Dura Ace and then Ultegra. In Campagnolo it is Record and then Chorus. Four steps down the range is Shimano Sora, Tiagra, and 2300.
That smart-looking brand spanking new Specialized Dolce for $1000 will be equipped with Tiagra. At $1500 you get middle of to pack 105.
There is nothing wrong per se with 105 or Tiagra or Sora or Xenon, but you get what you pay for. There is about a $1500 difference between a set of Dura Ace components and a set of Tiagra components.
So what is the difference between what you get for... $1000 at an LBS and at TOCycles.
Tthe first difference is in the components. Each of the major component makers (Campagnolo, Shimano and SRAM) offer a range of as many as 6 models of components, all at very different price points. The top of the line Shimano is Dura Ace and then Ultegra. In Campagnolo it is Record and then Chorus. Four steps down the range is Shimano Sora, Tiagra, and 2300.
That smart-looking brand spanking new Specialized Dolce for $1000 will be equipped with Tiagra. At $1500 you get middle of to pack 105.
There is nothing wrong per se with 105 or Tiagra or Sora or Xenon, but you get what you pay for. There is about a $1500 difference between a set of Dura Ace components and a set of Tiagra components.
So what's wrong with Tiagra components?
Nothing really. Just like there is isn't anything wrong with a cheap pair of shoes.
Actually the analogy is quite apt. Cheap shoes will look good right out of the box. But they won't last and they are likely not to make your feet feel very comfortable. High quality shoes will last a lifetime and will feel like a dream to walk in.
Bike components are similar. For all but professional riders, the top of the line stuff (Dura Ace and Ultegra, Record and Chorus) is precision engineer, is made of better materials (cast alloy and carbon) and so will last a lifetime and will prove very reliable. The Low end gear (Tiagra, Sora, Xenon) is made largely of plastic and is far more likely to fail and need replacing.
But there's also the feel. It's hard to describe but if you rode two bikes, one equipped with Record, the other with Tiagra, you would notice the diifference immediately. You would likely say the Record shifted more crisply, more cleanly and felt like an extension of your brain and body.
Better quality components are also easier to tuneup and will stay in tune far far longer.
And that is simply why then I would rather ride 15 year-old 8 speed Dura Ace rather than this year's model of 11-speed Tiagra.
Quality never goes out of style.
Actually the analogy is quite apt. Cheap shoes will look good right out of the box. But they won't last and they are likely not to make your feet feel very comfortable. High quality shoes will last a lifetime and will feel like a dream to walk in.
Bike components are similar. For all but professional riders, the top of the line stuff (Dura Ace and Ultegra, Record and Chorus) is precision engineer, is made of better materials (cast alloy and carbon) and so will last a lifetime and will prove very reliable. The Low end gear (Tiagra, Sora, Xenon) is made largely of plastic and is far more likely to fail and need replacing.
But there's also the feel. It's hard to describe but if you rode two bikes, one equipped with Record, the other with Tiagra, you would notice the diifference immediately. You would likely say the Record shifted more crisply, more cleanly and felt like an extension of your brain and body.
Better quality components are also easier to tuneup and will stay in tune far far longer.
And that is simply why then I would rather ride 15 year-old 8 speed Dura Ace rather than this year's model of 11-speed Tiagra.
Quality never goes out of style.
Why should I consider a bike from TOCycles?
They are used, none are in showroom condition, some of a few paint chips and scratches. And I can get something new for about the same money?
So why in goodness name would anyone want to buy a bike from TOCycles.
I've owned and ridden a lot of bikes in my day -- dozens. But there have only been about 3 that really stood out. Here's one for instance, a pretty much no name bike (though it is labelled POTTIE, I have no idea who this obscure French frame builder was) that I found in Europe. I bought it because it was made of Reynolds 753 steel tubing which I knew was their best stuff in the 1980s. But it sort of sat at the back of the storage room because there was no great brand name like Colnago or Bianchi which said RIde Me.
Until one day, I know not why, I dragged the Pottie out, cleaned it up and took it out for a ride.
And it immediately felt different. It was responsive, tight, smooth. It shifted clean and crisply. It just felt "Right".
Later I looked at it more closely and realized that it was equipped with Campagnolo Record components. But they were only 8-speeds and so were probably 18 years old. In an era of 11+-speed systems, an 8-speed rig seemed ridiculous. But the shifters and brakes and derailleurs shone as if they were new. They had been well cared for but they also lasted.
And that is how I suggest you find your right bike -- by riding it. Because out of 10 bikes you try, only one is going to jump out as being "Right:.
A bike shop is not going to let you test out YOUR exact bike. They might allow you to rent some similar bikes so that you can have some sense of the different feel of carbon, or aluminum or steel. But that test bike is not going to be the exact bike you take home. And if in 2 weeks you haven't bonded with your new bike? I don't think they are going to take it back -- it's USED (even if it only has 100 kms on it.)
At TOCycles you can test ride any bike for ... 10 days? 2 weeks? Try several. And after that trial period, one will likely jump out as THe One. But if none of them feel RIght, we'll happily take them all back and refund your money. As simple as that.
So why in goodness name would anyone want to buy a bike from TOCycles.
I've owned and ridden a lot of bikes in my day -- dozens. But there have only been about 3 that really stood out. Here's one for instance, a pretty much no name bike (though it is labelled POTTIE, I have no idea who this obscure French frame builder was) that I found in Europe. I bought it because it was made of Reynolds 753 steel tubing which I knew was their best stuff in the 1980s. But it sort of sat at the back of the storage room because there was no great brand name like Colnago or Bianchi which said RIde Me.
Until one day, I know not why, I dragged the Pottie out, cleaned it up and took it out for a ride.
And it immediately felt different. It was responsive, tight, smooth. It shifted clean and crisply. It just felt "Right".
Later I looked at it more closely and realized that it was equipped with Campagnolo Record components. But they were only 8-speeds and so were probably 18 years old. In an era of 11+-speed systems, an 8-speed rig seemed ridiculous. But the shifters and brakes and derailleurs shone as if they were new. They had been well cared for but they also lasted.
And that is how I suggest you find your right bike -- by riding it. Because out of 10 bikes you try, only one is going to jump out as being "Right:.
A bike shop is not going to let you test out YOUR exact bike. They might allow you to rent some similar bikes so that you can have some sense of the different feel of carbon, or aluminum or steel. But that test bike is not going to be the exact bike you take home. And if in 2 weeks you haven't bonded with your new bike? I don't think they are going to take it back -- it's USED (even if it only has 100 kms on it.)
At TOCycles you can test ride any bike for ... 10 days? 2 weeks? Try several. And after that trial period, one will likely jump out as THe One. But if none of them feel RIght, we'll happily take them all back and refund your money. As simple as that.
